If Godzilla fought King Kong in real life, who would win?

Animal experts Elliott Rosenthal and Matt Evans of the National Zoo weigh in and calculate the odds.

Godzilla Vs. Kong—which premiered simultaneously on HBO Max and in theaters March 31—hinges on one crucial, burning question: In a CGI battle between two made-up fantasy monsters, which made-up fantasy monster would win?

That profound philosophical query that has had scholars debating for decades, and, according to the tagline of the newly released fourth film in Legendary’s MonsterVerse—”One will fall”—it’s one that will finally have a definitive answer. (Although, for what it’s worth, King Kong was kind of, sort of the ultimate victor when these two titans clashed back in 1962, in King Kong vs. Godzilla.)

But with all due respect to the writers of Godzilla Vs. Kong, Decider chose to take this debate to a higher authority: the institution of science. Elliott Rosenthal has worked for Smithsonian’s National Zoo & Conservation Biology Institute as a primate and animal keeper for nine years. Matt Evans has been at the zoo as the assistant curator of herpetology (a Latin word that relates to the study of reptiles and amphibians) for 13 years now. This is not the first time Evans has been sought out for his expert opinion on the big guy—back in 2014, he mused on the plausibility of a lizard gaining weight for MTV.

Despite these impressive credentials, both experts agreed to put their important work on hold for 20 minutes to discuss this pressing question: Who would win in a fight, Godzilla? Or King Kong? But first, let’s define some terms.

Is King Kong a gorilla?

Primate keeper Elliott Rosenthal said that while the ape that King Kong most closely resembles is a gorilla, “it depends on which movie you’re looking at. The Peter Jackson one from 10 or so years ago—that was just straight-up a gorilla. You could tell they had studied gorilla behavior. The morphology was spot-on, just larger. The new ones, the Legendary ones—they seem to be more bipedal while walking than we see in gorillas. That’s the biggest standout.”

Rosenthal added that it would also be rare to find a gorilla—even one that was over 100-feet tall—traveling on its own. “It’s very rare to find just a single, solitary individual. That’s always how Kong is depicted: just Kong. In reality, you’d be dealing with a troop of, you know, 10+ individuals of all sizes and ages with a big silverback.”

Is Godzilla a lizard?

When asked what kind of lizard he would classify Godzilla as, assistant curator of herpetology Matt Evans responded: “I wouldn’t.”

“Like, this is a fun conversation,” Evans continued. “But I actually looked into some of the history around Godzilla. He’s supposed to be considered a mutated dinosaur. When you look at the different characteristics, it would be combining some kinds of lizards with some kinds of crocodilians, and then, obviously, with some weird random mutations. It’s more like a dinosaur. Dinosaurs have some, you know, reptilian characteristics, so a lot of people think a dinosaur is closely related to a dinosaur, but it’s not that closely related.”

But, for the purposes of this fun and not exactly scientific conversation, Evans drew from his knowledge of reptiles that share characteristics with this fictional mutated dino, including crocodiles and Komodo dragons. OK, now on to the main event.

Who would win in a fight, a giant gorilla or a giant mutated lizard-type-thing?

Rosenthal made the case for his simian fighter with confidence: “If we’re talking giant lizard versus giant ape, my money’s on giant ape all day, every day. They’re going to be stronger. Even at that increased size for both of them, the ape is going to come out on top of strength. They’ve got a larger brain, so they are going to be more intelligent. You’ve got hands made for gripping, and therefore, tool use. The ability to come up with strategies and problem solve, the ability to use tools, increased strength… I just don’t see it being that much of a contest.” 

That said, he did acknowledge Godzilla’s radioactive factor might complicate things. “If we’re talking Godzilla versus Kong, it’s a harder choice.”

But Evans fired back, arguing that one shouldn’t under-estimate the intelligence—and potential ability to use tools—of a giant lizard. “There’s this misconception that reptiles are these innate beings—that they don’t problem-solve, don’t think, and can’t learn. That’s not true. They’re definitely not as advanced as a great ape would be, as far as its intelligence, but there are studies now that show that the crocodilians and monitor lizards actually can use tools, solve problems, and think. You don’t typically see monitor lizards using limbs to extract things like a mammal would do, but when they’re forced into experiments where there’s food—and it’s positioned in a place where they can’t get to it with their mouths— they actually will take their front leg front arm and reach in and grab the food out. And you’ve seen papers where crocodilians use sticks and different things to hide themselves when hunting.”

When pressed if this evidence meant that we can—and should—give Godzilla a sword, Evans was less certain. “I wouldn’t expect most lizards to actually use their front limbs as a primary weapon. They could hold things. He could definitely hold things. His ability to kind of swing and maneuver [a sword]… I don’t know how successful he would be.”

Scoffed Rosenthal, “With those tiny little arms?!”

What if Godzilla and Kong took the fight to the water?

“Godzilla lives in the water, right?” Evans said. “He uses his tail, just like a crocodile would as a rudder while swimming. And there’s a lot of strength to it. I’ve seen him swing his tail, like a monitor—a lizard monitor, a Komodo dragon—would use for balance. So the tail is actually pretty unique, and definitely helps in the aquatic environment, and also on land as well. Pretty sure King Kong can’t live underwater.”

At this, Rosenthal looked sheepish. “Yeah, so I was hoping the water thing wouldn’t come up. Gorillas cannot swim. Part of the reason for that is just the muscle density. Gorilla muscle fibers are so densely woven compared to ours that they tend to sink like rocks. Oftentimes, at zoos, they will use water as a barrier. So they might wade in a little bit—maybe as far as the knees or the thighs—but they’re not going to go swimming. So if this fight went into the water, that might be it.”

Would Kong have an advantage in a cityscape?

“I think he’s going to have an advantage there, just from an agility standpoint,” Rosenthal said. “Gorillas are considered terrestrial, but they are easily at home in the trees as well. Their body shape is designed to be on the ground, but they can move around in jungle habitat very well. If you equate large buildings to large trees, they might have a dexterity advantage.”

Evans acknowledged that climbing on buildings wasn’t exactly Godzilla’s strong suit. “Anything kind of off the ground would be completely out of his element,” he said. “There are, of course, lizards and reptiles that are really good at climbing. But in this situation, most reptiles tend to just use their weight, their strength, and their power as an advantage. With a lot of the dinosaurs—especially something like a crocodilian—the tail is very strong and used as a weapon. So instead of climbing up over something, they’re just going to bulldoze through it.”

Would a gorilla and lizard ever actually fight in the wild?

“There are areas where those two species could overlap,” Evans said. “But reptiles prefer solitude. They’re kind of on their own, for the most part. But apes travel in groups, and one of the advantages of that is there are animals always looking out for predators. I think it’d be pretty rare for an adult crocodile, or something, to get an adult ape. It could be an inexperienced young animal, maybe they got too close to the water or something like that. Crocodiles don’t come out of the water too much. They do a lot of their hunting in and around the water, and around the water’s edge.”

Added Rosenthal, “I think if these two—or if a gorilla came across a large lizard-like creature—I don’t think it would end up in a fight. Even with other members of their own species, gorillas would rather bluff their way out of a fight than actually engage in one. That’s where you see chest-beating, they puff themselves up really big, they throw things, and try to make a lot of noise. So that’s probably where it would, realistically, end up: the gorilla trying to scare away the lizard.”

That trait might also be a survival advantage against a giant lizard, who, Evans said, would be far less strategic. “The first response is to get away,” he said. “But if something is attacking you, it’s interesting—a lot of reptiles, they don’t see size or weight. All they know is basically: turn around and fight. They don’t really see, like, ‘Oh, I don’t have the advantage.’”

“You’ll see the opposite with gorillas,” Rosenthal said. “If there is a male that is clearly larger than you—clearly you’re not going to win that fight—they know ‘Okay, let’s back off from this.’”

So, in a realistic battle between a giant gorilla and a giant lizard, it might come down to an internal battle of judgment? Said Rosenthal with a laugh, “It might be a short movie!”

OK, so who wins, Godzilla or King Kong?

“If strength was equal, it would all be about the environment,” Evans said. “So if Kong can get Godzilla out of the water, up on land, and be able to use the strength to throw and toss him, and use his agility, that would be tough. If Godzilla gets him into the water, or an environment where he’s not able to use his agility, then he’s gonna be in trouble. To me, it’s all about the environment.”

Rosenthal agreed and offered this prediction for the film, which had not been released or reviewed at the time of the interview: “The movie is not going to have a winner. They’re going to fight, it’s going to be a draw, and they’re going to fight Mechagodzilla. Calling it now.”

No spoilers, but it seems Rosenthal knows just as much about movies as primates.

This post by Anna Menta @annalikestweets was originally published by Decider.com. Reprinted with permission. © 2021 NYP Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved.

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